Summary
Host William Curb interviews Sean Brock, a neurofeedback expert and owner of NeuroC Colorado, about how neurofeedback works and its applications for ADHD. Sean traces the history of neurofeedback back nearly 70 years to experiments with cats and monkeys, highlighting a pivotal study where cats trained with neurofeedback to produce SMR brainwaves survived toxic jet fuel exposure while untrained cats did not. He explains that neurofeedback is fundamentally operant conditioning applied to brain electrical activity: a quantitative EEG measures brainwaves at 19 sites, compares them to statistical norms, and then real-time training rewards the brain for producing target frequencies. The episode provides a detailed breakdown of the five to six main ADHD subtypes visible on brain maps. These include excess theta causing a daydreamy hypnagogic state, excess alpha causing blanking out, temporal lobe alpha causing dissociative episodes, mu rhythm in the sensorimotor strip that improves with physical movement like fidgeting and doodling, spindling beta creating a fast but dissociative pattern often linked to excess GABA, and an abnormal theta-to-beta ratio. Sean emphasizes that these subtypes look very different on brain maps even though they may produce similar behavioral symptoms, which is why generic medication approaches can sometimes make symptoms worse. The conversation also covers EMDR therapy and internal family systems (IFS) therapy as complementary approaches to neurofeedback. Sean notes that neurofeedback is not a magic bullet and requires guidance from a qualified practitioner, but it can work alongside medication and other therapies. William acknowledges the ongoing controversy around neurofeedback's effectiveness for ADHD while noting that Sean's clinical experience and the research he presents make a compelling case, especially with the caveat that individual results depend on proper brain mapping and targeted protocols.
Key Points
- Neurofeedback has been around for nearly 70 years, originating from experiments where cats trained to produce SMR brainwaves survived toxic exposure that killed untrained cats
- A quantitative EEG measures brainwaves at 19 scalp sites and compares them to age- and sex-matched statistical norms to identify areas of over- or under-activity
- There are five to six distinct ADHD subtypes on brain maps including excess theta, excess alpha, temporal lobe alpha, mu rhythm, spindling beta, and abnormal theta-to-beta ratio
- Each ADHD subtype has different neurological origins, which explains why the same medication can help one person but worsen symptoms in another
- Neurofeedback uses operant conditioning in real time: the brain is rewarded when it produces target frequencies and the feedback stops when it drifts
- The mu rhythm subtype of ADHD responds well to physical movement like fidgeting and doodling because sensory input stops the mu rhythm that causes the frontal lobe to go offline
- Neurofeedback works best alongside other therapies and medication rather than as a standalone replacement
- EMDR and internal family systems therapy are discussed as complementary approaches that address trauma and internal psychological patterns alongside neurofeedback's brainwave training
Key Moments
Neurofeedback has 70-year origins from training cats to helping humans regulate brainwaves
Sean Brock explains that neurofeedback has been around for almost 70 years, originating from experiments implanting electrodes in cats and monkeys. A key discovery was that cats trained with neurofeedback to produce SMR brainwaves survived toxic exposure that killed untrained cats.
"is really cool and it has been around"
Neurofeedback is operant conditioning applied to brainwaves
Brock describes how neurofeedback begins with a quantitative EEG that measures brainwaves at 19 sites and compares them to a statistical norm, then uses real-time reward-based feedback to help people learn to control specific brain wave patterns.
"neuro feedback in general it's nothing magic it's just a form of Operating Conditioning we start with a quantitative EEG which is basically put a cap on your head measure your brain waves at 19 different sites"
Classic ADHD shows excess theta in the frontal lobe creating a daydream state
The classic ADHD presentation in the brain is too much slow-wave theta activity in the frontal lobe, putting the brain into a daydream-like hypnagogic state. Neurofeedback trains the brain to create less theta, which reduces ADHD symptoms.
"electrically is too much slow wave"
There are five or six distinct brain subtypes of ADHD that require different treatment
Brock explains that when examining the brain's electrical activity, there are five or six main subtypes of ADHD, each originating from different brain regions. The same symptoms can come from different neurological causes, making targeted treatment essential.
"when we look at the brain's electrical activity there are five or six main subtypes of ADHD or dissociative disorders or ways that it can present in the brain and and they're all quite different"
